Minister of Free Inquiry ([info]aethyrflux) wrote,
@ 2004-08-03 20:39:00
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Current mood: accomplished
Current music:eon, "the spice must flow"
Entry tags:authority, buddhism, dune, frank herbert, mysticism, revelation, sign of profound accord, thou shalt not disfigure the soul!, truth

Thou shalt not disfigure the soul!
this entry was somewhat inspired by conversations with john funk, and [info]buddhalotus, and further enlightened by a post from [info]stonemirror.

--

i have been studying the with the soka gakkai international - usa, recently: through the practice of Nichiren Buddhism and the study of the Lotus Sutra, i have furthered my experience with the transformative nature of ritual and the revolutionary aspects of spirituality; and although dharma works in mysterious ways, i am still skeptical of any human representatives with such lofty claims as having the ultimate key to understanding the mystical law of the universe...

for everyone i meet in spiritual discussion, here's a general fyi: just tell me how your ritual/practice works for you, and spare me the claims to authority, please.

--


"We are here to remove a primary weapon from the hands of disputant religions. That weapon--the claim to possession of the one and only revelation."

(this was a surprising immediate agreement on the statement of The Commission of Ecumenical Translators' common goal... although jubilation at this "sign of profound accord" proved premature)

from Appendix II of Dune, by Frank Herbert


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[info]vajrahridaya
2004-08-03 07:23 pm UTC (link)
to appeal to experience and not authority...
in deepening in spirituality, in my experience (with various traditions) it is not the ritual or practice that matters as much as the field of enlightenment that you connect to *regularly* somehow in relation to a teacher, archetype, deity, whatever -- which are all gates or windows on our own essence anyway. my meditation is these days is often very simple -- relaxing with a simple mantra and then settling in silence, while various various inner phenomena, subtle or mundane, unfold or not.

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cleansing the doors of perception
[info]aethyrflux
2004-08-05 06:59 pm UTC (link)
not intending to quibble about semiotics, yet i don't see how you can seperate how you connect (i.e., ritual/practice) from the actual results of that process: the "field of enlightenment that you connect to?" but, my preference is to look through the lens of the socratic method as an empirical way to measure the experience? i know that the map is not the territory, but i do work continually to improve my cartographical accuracy. i also know that there are limits to aristotelian logic... it doesn't apply well to the sub-atomic environment, nor that of entheogens/psychedelics, much less the spiritual realms. meanwhile, my intention is to improve recognition for our respective definitions of terminology in order to help us get our bearings in this discussion.

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Re: cleansing the doors of perception
[info]vajrahridaya
2004-08-05 10:42 pm UTC (link)
my methodological approach to spiritual inquiry is to rotate through multiple methods -- intellectual inquiry, emotion, various meditations, detached action, observations of everyday experience. this exploration of multiple methods -- and checking out of the multidimensional nature of reality from various angles -- is something that various mystical traditions teach.

I've found that when you practice multiple methods in relationship to the energy of *one* teacher or tradition, that then the spirit or essence of that teacher's connection to or window on infinity gradually opens more and essence shines through more and more. method then becomes secondary. our being as essence then can become primary more and more. we need plumbing, cups and straws and rain clouds to give us water when on land but when we fall in the ocean or a fresh water lake preferably (no sharks) -- we get very wet -- no particular method is needed to be be wet, when we are/awake to a certain degree in the great lake of being :)

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Death to all fanatics!
[info]aethyrflux
2004-08-23 03:03 am UTC (link)
multiple methods.. right on!
"specialization is for insects," eh?
when i made this post, i was pondering what it is that some people find so compelling about obsessing over one particular tradition to the exception of all others.
although in particular situations, i have found that one needn't use a hammer in lieu of a screwdriver...
i have not found the one-all-purpose-tool-multi-method; however, perhaps there is something to be said about practice making perfect?
so, maybe there is utility in focussing on building specific ritual skillsets , but i refuse to permit fanatically fundamentalist attitudes in my presence.
i have been searching for the right method to counteract intolerant ideology...
"illuminate the opposition!"

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Re: Death to all fanatics!
[info]vajrahridaya
2004-08-23 06:21 am UTC (link)
I think there is no escape from fundamentalism in some parts society. How much will be there? Varies no doubt. We live in an age with a many types of oppression. Socially, fundamentalism fights to maintain something somehow. You have to challenge the boundaries and oppressions of society to change some of the social causes of fundamentalism.

But religiously/internally, I think most paths and seekers often progress through development stages in relation to their methods: one of the first being a fundamentalistic formalism (the method as the key to truth--at least for them/their community.) Simplifying this, the progression would be formalism, intuition, open nondualism. So, I think the way out is to find the fluid moments within a tradition -- one could also show the eclectic base of the tradition (to satisfy oneself) but that would be threatening to someone in a formalistic stage -- or they would hear. One needs to shift from clinging to the outer forms to being sensitive to the inner dance of meanings and energies and then the openness within all. The right method ot counteract formalism *and* intolerance based on that -- is appealing to the depth of other traditions -- through dialog with people who are open or tending there. And if the people aren't there yet, it is like talking to a stone wall -- or like trying to get a 2 year old to give up their blanket or the 5 year old the abc song or whatever fairy tale they are repeating or a teenager to give up their rebellion music.

At the political-economic level, critique tackles ideology and the control of society through beliefs. Here, deconstruction and critical theory help one unfold the varying elements and contradictions within a form of cultural. However, most people don't want to hear that -- no time, little training in the concepts.

For oneself and those one dialogs with, I believe that diving deep, again and again, past symbols or through them -- finding the inspiration, the taste of the heart, the flow of infinity in particular inspirations is the way past form and fundamentals... The specific method, again, does not matter so much. Being in contact with people who do dive deep very much matters.

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Re: Death to all fanatics!
[info]aethyrflux
2004-09-01 03:18 am UTC (link)
yeah, i supposse my tendency is to go straight for the socratic method; but some people are happy chained in the cave watching the shadows dance on the wall.

bringing gnosis down from the top of the mountain is much more difficult than telling others how you got there once you've made the journey, yourself... without them thinking you're crazy.

the trick is in motivating others to want to make the trip themselves, as if they had decided to do so of their own volition... creating a need, as it were (and letting others take the credit themselves).

oh, damn -- there i go trying to save the world again -- when it's so much easier to just avoid the ignorance, rather than educate people. oh well, i enjoy a challenge, and service has its own rewards. now, if i could just balance this cynicism and skepticism with a clearer sense of humor, i might have an audience? i guess i could always use sex & violence, but then people would probably accuse me of copying the matrix...

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Re: Death to all fanatics!
[info]vajrahridaya
2004-09-01 08:33 pm UTC (link)
well, obviously you think about this stuff in depth. it is good to rehearse these questions of methods and purpose in spiritual study and teaching repeatedly and from various angles...

it seems most people are not interested in really working hard on the inner journey. various dharma teachings are out there in abundance. so what is really blocking understanding?

ideology shapes our motivations and practices -- convinces us to look for something and grab some experience or some ideals which are temporary or outside of realization as the best rewards and goals. perhaps at the level of ideology is where the attack can be made -- through spiritual agitprop. :) however, you run into the problem of the resistance of ideological informed communities -- hence, yes, religious wars or oppression, one way or another. the monks and teachers of various new faiths have gone out on the streets and let their freak flags fly -- suffering all sorts of terrible oppressions. noble -- and ironcially, in the very fervor and charisma to do that sacrifice is the root of fundamentalism: dedication to a path.

how to be deeply dedicated and yet tolerant?
that is perhaps like asking: how to be well formed and empty?
(this is our innate nature in both cases.)

for those who are interested in spirituality, i think it is important to consider...

various rich spiritual traditions (sufi, vajrayana) encourage people to practice according to their different temperaments, for example: devotion, self analysis, and energetic yogas would be three different tracks (that can overlap).

i think a key issue here as someone serving others is to find and dive into an enlightenment tradition that empowers one with the knowledge and means to help folks to select what works for them/what they need. a problem here is that those needs can evolve. hence, this is connected to what you mention: walking the path to awakening yourself solves a lot... but that awakening needs to be combined with the training and theory that allows you to help others with various quite distinct needs -- else you are liberated through one focused method and then sharing a one method fits all approach -- even if it is flexible on its own terms as a practice matrix.

I think this is part of the problem of fanaticism, not just protection, but concretization of a method and an over-generalization of this method to many.

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[info]phryday
2004-08-04 12:18 am UTC (link)
as the cyberpunks like to say, nobody owns an idea.

we are all experts of our own perceptions.

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[info]aethyrflux
2004-09-01 04:35 am UTC (link)
'nuff respect to worthies such as yourself; but there are many others who have blindly given up ownership of their bodies, hearts, minds, and souls to the machine, the country, the corporation, &/or the church...

and as socrates would say, "the unexamined life is not worth living."

this is a statement not just about introspection; but also about engaging the body politic in discussion of how to improve the qualities of all of our lives, with exception to none!

the mojo meetings have been an excellent opportunity for engaging in this sort of dialogue, and we hope y'all will join us.

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[info]buddhalotus
2004-08-04 03:03 pm UTC (link)
I myself lately have been wondering what the hell is wrong with such religious fanatics. I used to just steer clear of the evangelical ones and go about my free thinking merry way....until my late uncle's funeral.....you know what I'm talking about. I don't know what to make of a religion that dominates most of our country and still feels the need to have a huge sermon at a funeral. Not to mention the fact that my live journal was spammed when that movie the Passion came out. I noticed around that time others were complaining of the same thing. I'm just too much of a free thinker to buy into crap that is shoved down my throat without making my own decisions about life and death and everything else.

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[info]aethyrflux
2004-09-01 04:17 am UTC (link)
ok, so now... what are you going to do about it?
is it even worth the effort to communicate with them honestly and openly about how you feel?

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[info]buddhalotus
2004-09-04 03:00 pm UTC (link)
Uhhh,.....I usually communicate openly and hostly with people about how I feel. Sometimes it's not worth it.

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